Attributing points in fortress after a suicide?

[Mecca]

I just wanted to know how people would feel if fortress suicides (in the ladle) gave points to the other team (or made your team lose points).

Some things to consider:

- Suicide to win matches

-Random deaths

-Suicide to save the base

How many points would be appropriate (if at all)? 1, 2, 3? More?

[sinewav]

I think it's terrible in any case since Armagetron is notoriously bad at deciding who gets what when someone dies. This goes hand-in-hand with hole points (so-and-so get n points for making a sacrifice for the good of the team!), which most people also think is a bad idea.

[syllabear]

It strays from fortress in my opinion. Changing hole size is different because holes are there: fiddling with the size is like tinkering. Removing holes would be too far, as that changes from having holes to not having holes. Similarly with this, it changes from not giving points from suicide to giving them.

And just to be pedantic, unless this is specifically for a tournament, it should probably be in "General" if its just to do with fort.

[dariv]

To answer sine's point, if the computer is so bad at deciding who gets what, a neat solution is to simply say "if you die the other team gets 2 points". That would include team-kills and suicides, which would ordinarily count against you in most other online games anyway.

If anyone says "I will miss no point holing" I won't believe them.

[sinewav]

If anyone says "I will miss no point holing" I won't believe them.

I would miss it. Think about it; the discovery and propagation of the NPH frames how incredible this game is. It took creativity to make it into a tactic and takes teamwork and good communication to pull it off. It's still not an easy thing to do after all these months. You want to remove forward progress? No thanks.

I'm personally against any negative scoring in Fortress. It will force people to be too careful and place all the emphasis on survival. That's a game-killer and you all know it.

[INW]

It will force people to be too careful and place all the emphasis on survival. That's a game-killer and you all know it.

Yep.

Aggressive play > passive play

[Mecca]

And just to be pedantic, unless this is specifically for a tournament, it should probably be in "General" if its just to do with fort.

This was geared towards competitive play.

If anyone says "I will miss no point holing" I won't believe them.

I would miss it. Think about it; the discovery and propagation of the NPH frames how incredible this game is. It took creativity to make it into a tactic and takes teamwork and good communication to pull it off. It's still not an easy thing to do after all these months. You want to remove forward progress? No thanks.

I'm personally against any negative scoring in Fortress. It will force people to be too careful and place all the emphasis on survival. That's a game-killer and you all know it.

Yeah, no point holing would no longer exist, however you would still be better off successfully holing as you would give the other team 2 or 3 points while gaining 8(how many points is it for capturing the base again?) points for your own team. This way, if you screw up you are punished (the other team either gets points for killing you, or you lose points for killing yourself), and if you succeed you are rewarded.

Spin, its just negative points for suicide, not every time you die. This would have an effect on the defenders though process during situations like when the defender is against 2 or 3 people at the end of the round and can either try to kill them off (what I did on GCEA (**** you Airman)), or suicide, ending the round, and not giving the attackers a chance at the base.

[sinewav]

how many points is it for capturing the base again?

Wait, you don't even know how the scoring works in Fortress, but you make a thread to discuss changing it?

Nice troll thread. Ok everyone, move along. Nothing to read here.

[dariv]

I would miss it. Think about it; the discovery and propagation of the NPH frames how incredible this game is. It took creativity to make it into a tactic and takes teamwork and good communication to pull it off. It's still not an easy thing to do after all these months. You want to remove forward progress? No thanks.

It's a demonstration of why the players are good, not the game. It's an exploit more than anything, evidenced by the fact that sometimes, inexplicably, the detection fails and doesn't give you a suicide.

I'm personally against any negative scoring in Fortress. It will force people to be too careful and place all the emphasis on survival. That's a game-killer and you all know it.

"negative scoring" is a red herring. It's effectively identical to positive scoring on the other team. So if the threat of losing points is a deterrent for team A, surely it's an incentive for team B? Which, by your logic, is the opposite to a game-killer. You're only considering half the argument.

[INW]

how many points is it for capturing the base again?

wow...

[Mecca]

how many points is it for capturing the base again?

Wait, you don't even know how the scoring works in Fortress, but you make a thread to discuss changing it?

Nice troll thread. Ok everyone, move along. Nothing to read here.

Really? I know how the scoring works. Points are awarded for kills, capturing the base, and holes (depending on the settings). The exact number of points awarded for capturing the base has slipped my mind as I have not been active recently. I made this thread to see what people though of the idea, not to troll.

+1 to dariv

[sinewav]

I know how the scoring works. Points are awarded for kills, capturing the base, and holes (depending on the settings).

You also forgot "win". Seriously, if you aren't going to take the time to even look up the scoring before you post, how can anyone take you seriously? You obviously haven't thought this out at all. The only thing you seem to have thought about is "how can I get some attention on the forums?" Good job. Now please bugger off.

[Mecca]

I know how the scoring works. Points are awarded for kills, capturing the base, and holes (depending on the settings).

You also forgot "win".

My mistake!

[INW]

6 points for winning the round
4 points for capturing the zone
2 points for killing an enemy

6 (players on a team) x 2 (points per kill) = 12 (possible points from killing an enemy team) + 6 (round win points) + 4 (zone capture points) = 22 (maximum points for a round)

To get the scoring that everyone except mecca knows about the ladle out of the way, let's continue shall we.

[Mecca]

6 points for winning the round
4 points for capturing the zone
2 points for killing an enemy

6 (players on a team) x 2 (points per kill) = 12 (possible points from killing an enemy team) + 6 (round win points) + 4 (zone capture points) = 22 (maximum points for a round)

To get the scoring that everyone except mecca knew about the ladle out of the way, let's continue shall we.

(assuming suicide would give you -2 points)

Committing suicide to ensure you win the match requires a much greater lead on the enemy team. Each round of 6 team suicide closes an 18 point gap, as opposed to a 6 point gap.

In regular matches, it would be interesting to see how much of a difference the suicide points would tend to make.