New server: Electric Fishing

[Word]

Hello, we have a new server called Electric Fishing.
basically it's a small box, a last man standing server with high accel, fast rubber recovery and a boost... but every time you turn your speed goes back to zero. Oh, and watch out for the expanding death zone in the middle!. If you don't like Dog Fight or High Rubber, this might be able to attract you more.
The score system is simple, you can get one point when you kill someone and one point when you survive a round, limit_score is 10.
Rounds are fast, so it won't get boring, even in single player mode!


On a side note, it was named Etch-A-Sketch before...maybe that would be a good name for someone who wants to setup another ArmagetronArt server

Check it out and tell us what you think.

[Phytotron]

I guess it's kind of amusing. Tell you what I think? OK!


• There's no reason to hype it as "a new game mode." It's not. It's just a variation in physics in a LMS game. Just like Tiger's, BiH, Shrunkland, Lobster Cage, incam, or even high rubber and speed servers.

• Why do you need a boost with the speed and acceleration already being high (and arguably excessive)?

• You describe it as an alternative to high rubber, but CYCLE_RUBBER 8, especially when combined with CYCLE_RUBBER_TIME 0.8, is most definitely high rubber.

If you're going to have such a low CYCLE_RUBBER_TIME (the "fast rubber recovery"), you should have much lower basic CYCLE_RUBBER. Making the former so low is like increasing the latter.

• Speaking of which, it's waaaay too easy to do repetitive adjusts and 180-grinds. Again, certainly not any alternative to high rubber, etc. How about some CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY + CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY_BONUS implementation.

• Speed doesn't actually go to zero upon turning. In order to do that, you need to set both CYCLE_TURN_SPEED_FACTOR and CYCLE_SPEED_MIN to zero.

• Moreover, how do you expect players to battle when every turn one falls way behind, and it seems almost impossible to overtake? And forget chasing. Maybe I'm missing something and need to have it out with some real players, but it doesn't seem promising.

• The other problem: Having those sorts of drastic leaps in speed may be amusing, and could possibly result in fun and interesting gameplay (I'm yet undecided here, but like I said, not optimistic), however, it does cause a great deal of persistent, jumpy lag. That's not fun.

• Tail length at 200 is probably either too short, or too long.

• It's not that small of an arena ("box," as you put it). In fact, with such short tails, it should possibly be smaller.

• The CYCLE_SOUND_SPEED of 2 is obnoxious and annoying as hell! It's kind of funny on the actual turn, makes a Pac-Man-like "wacka-wacka," but all the rest of the time—NO! BAD IDEA! That setting should be roughly equal to CYCLE_SPEED.

• I don't think that simple round survival should be given as much score weight as a core dump. If you want a survival point, I would increase the kill score, as well as the score limit. (Obviously, that's more taste rather than advisement, as the above points.)

• I don't get the uses of the names Etch-A-Sketch or Electric Fishing. (Yes, I know what both are.)

• You also offer it as an alternative to "Dogfight." Isn't dogfight just another word for "playing open?" If so, how is this server in any way an alternative to that?

• At least you don't have ridiculously miniscule CYCLE_DELAY, I'll give you that.


To tell you the truth, a few of these things make me wonder if or how much you and/or whomever made this server have even played it. But, perhaps with some work, it could be good. Points for trying something different that doesn't rely upon gimmicky game modes and features.


[By the way, this would probably have been better categorized under General, since you don't have your own Servers subforum.]

[sinewav]

The CYCLE_SOUND_SPEED gave me an instant headache. I had to leave immediately. Remember how I make you change the sound speed in your PRU server before I'll play you in them? Yeah, it's like that. To me, sound is half the experience of playing, and if it doesn't sound good, I'm out.

[Word]

• Why do you need a boost with the speed and acceleration already being high (and arguably excessive)?

it's a kind of randomness factor, if it was set to something lower it would take ages to follow someone (if he is a really good runner )

• You describe it as an alternative to high rubber, but CYCLE_RUBBER 8, especially when combined with CYCLE_RUBBER_TIME 0.8, is most definitely high rubber.

If you're going to have such a low CYCLE_RUBBER_TIME (the "fast rubber recovery"), you should have much lower basic CYCLE_RUBBER. Making the former so low is like increasing the latter.

I changed it to 6 now, first it was set to 4, but i realized you have a big disadvantage when you play against high-pingers (the jumpy lag you talked about).

• Speaking of which, it's waaaay too easy to do repetitive adjusts and 180-grinds. Again, certainly not any alternative to high rubber, etc. How about some CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY + CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY_BONUS implementation.

i've set both to 2, but tbh i've no clue what is different. or shall i set it to a negative value?

• Speed doesn't actually go to zero upon turning. In order to do that, you need to set both CYCLE_TURN_SPEED_FACTOR and CYCLE_SPEED_MIN to zero.

i know, it wasn't meant to be technically true, it's a bit more.

• Moreover, how do you expect players to battle when every turn one falls way behind, and it seems almost impossible to overtake? And forget chasing. Maybe I'm missing something and need to have it out with some real players, but it doesn't seem promising.

yes, that's different from other servers.

• The other problem: Having those sorts of drastic leaps in speed may be amusing, and could possibly result in fun and interesting gameplay (I'm yet undecided here, but like I said, not optimistic), however, it does cause a great deal of persistent, jumpy lag. That's not fun.

this problem exists, but it didn't occur a lot so far.

• Tail length at 200 is probably either too short, or too long.

I changed it to 400 (200 => only in single player mode, forgot about this)

• It's not that small of an arena ("box," as you put it). In fact, with such short tails, it should possibly be smaller.

oh, that's another single player mode setting i forgot...it's -4 now

• The CYCLE_SOUND_SPEED of 2 is obnoxious and annoying as hell! It's kind of funny on the actual turn, makes a Pac-Man-like "wacka-wacka," but all the rest of the time—NO! BAD IDEA! That setting should be roughly equal to CYCLE_SPEED.

The CYCLE_SOUND_SPEED gave me an instant headache. I had to leave immediately. Remember how I make you change the sound speed in your PRU server before I'll play you in them? Yeah, it's like that. To me, sound is half the experience of playing, and if it doesn't sound good, I'm out.

sorry about that, changed it to 35.

• I don't think that simple round survival should be given as much score weight as a core dump. If you want a survival point, I would increase the kill score, as well as the score limit. (Obviously, that's more taste rather than advisement, as the above points.)

I've set score_kill to 2 and limit_score to 20 now

• I don't get the uses of the names Etch-A-Sketch or Electric Fishing. (Yes, I know what both are.)

another name i used was "the watershed" but i thought that sounded too much as if it comes from me...and there's nothing that could be associated with it...
someone said i should use a sport's name for this server so it would get more popular. i looked up some exotic 'sports' and then i found THIS .
I think "Electric Fishing" fits because
1) i get seasick when i play there
2) the death zone usually kills distracted players at once

another player said i should call it "broken dog fight" and make a round message because "you need df rules here!"

• You also offer it as an alternative to "Dogfight." Isn't dogfight just another word for "playing open?" If so, how is this server in any way an alternative to that?

If you don't like Dog Fight or High Rubber, this might be able to attract you more.

You know that I don't like Dog Fight; this server does neither encourage to play open nor does it prevent "traps". And the rounds don't take forever.

To tell you the truth, a few of these things make me wonder if or how much you and/or whomever made this server have even played it. But, perhaps with some work, it could be good. Points for trying something different that doesn't rely upon gimmicky game modes and features.

thanks for this analysis, most problems you mentioned are in fact evitable and need to be corrected.

[Phytotron]

OK, let's see.

First, that's not how the rubber-delay settings work. Basically, as I understand it, it's like this:

CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY determines the distance from which you can turn into a wall before CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY_BONUS kicks in. The value entered will equal a fraction of the distance created by CYCLE_DELAY. (What I mean by "the distance created by CYCLE_DELAY" can be visualised simply by pressing L and R at the same time. Note that this varies depending on speed.)

CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY_BONUS is basically the penalty on rubber that occurs when you turn into a wall within the distance determined by CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY.

They work in conjunction with one another. So, for example, settings of...

CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY 1
CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY_BONUS 0.5

...means that if you're within 1x the distance of CYCLE_DELAY from a wall, then turn onto that wall, you will retain only half of your current rubber.

CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY 0.5 shortens the distance to 0.5x the distance—i.e., 1/2 of CYCLE_DELAY's distance. A value of 0.1 would be a tenth of the distance, etc.

CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY_BONUS 0 disables rubber completely (this is what I do in Shrunkland).

Get it?

The way you've set it, you may actually be doubling the amount of rubber someone has while within double the distance of CYCLE_DELAY.



On the subject of "dogfight," again, there's nothing special about your settings that discourages "open" play (what would?). Sure, there's nothing that encourages it, either, but what server does? (There are now, inexplicably, settings to enforce open play, but thus far I've yet to see a server implement it, including those that explicitly advertise themselves as Dogfight/Open-only servers.) So, my point was just that this server is no more or less an alternative to DF/open than any other regular server.

Nor is it an alternative to high rubber. Either lower CYCLE_RUBBER and/or raise CYCLE_RUBBER_TIME if you want that claim to hold true.


With respect to the lag, I find it occurs every time someone turns. Again, that's a function of the drastic leaps in speed when dropping at a turn, and jumping back up after. Yes, I'm in the US, but I've experienced the same thing in US servers with strong brakes or boosts. It's the way the game is, not just my personal experience.


By the way, electrofishing isn't a "sport." It's a technique used by researchers to stun fish for easy, less harmful collection and subsequent release. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrofishing

But, the cycles do have some fish-like movement, so I get that part. Pause, dart, hesitate, dart.



So, has anyone played this and had success actually battling and actively core dumping other players yet?

[Phytotron]

Blah, I didn't realise the death zone came up right at the beginning. All the fun is in the middle.

My bet: If this gets played at all, it's just going to be a lot of rim hugging.

[Word]

The way you've set it, you may actually be doubling the amount of rubber someone has while within double the distance of CYCLE_DELAY.

is that something bad?

Blah, I didn't realise the death zone came up right at the beginning. All the fun is in the middle

for me it's fun to see how all the bots and inattentive players (me included) are absorbed at start

[Phytotron]

The way you've set it, you may actually be doubling the amount of rubber someone has while within double the distance of CYCLE_DELAY.

is that something bad?

If your intention is to encourage even more abuse of repetitive adjusts and 180-grinding with impunity, further liken it to high rubber (despite your claims of it as an alternatve), and resulting in a really godawful bastard of a server, then no, I suppose not. If you want a decent server, then most definitely, yes.

[frankdude]

the ef servers are awesome

[Phytotron]

Alright, these are the settings I recall changing:

Code: Select all

CYCLE_RUBBER 4
CYCLE_RUBBER_TIMEBASED 1
CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY 1
CYCLE_RUBBER_DELAY_BONUS 0.4
CYCLE_SOUND_SPEED 25
WIN_ZONE_MIN_ROUND_TIME 3
WIN_ZONE_MIN_LAST_DEATH 0
WIN_ZONE_EXPANSION (You changed from 0.1 to 0.4; I don't know what you want to accomplish here.)
IDLE_REMOVE_TIME (your choice)
CHATTER_REMOVE_TIME (your choice)
IDLE_KICK_TIME (your choice)

Um, so, I told you DEDICATED_IDLE shouldn't be zero. Then you set it to 1. I went back later and the server is no longer on the list. This may go to who's hosting it and how, and perhaps he had it at 0 for a reason. :sdoo:

[Word]

ok i will change that, i know that our hoster restarted the servers last night.

and I'll post the other settings here when i have written a complete list, the win_zone_expansion will be set to 0.1 again

[Phytotron]

I didn't mean to imply anything about the WIN_ZONE_EXPANSION. Make it what you like. It was a genuine statement: I don't know what you want to accomplish. Really slow, faster, etc....


Did you find out how it's being hosted, on a commercial server or someone's home computer? Might want to consult with him what a good setting would be for DEDICATED_IDLE. I know you don't want it to run endlessly without restarts; I just don't know what's optimal for a given situation. ::cough::Z-Man::cough::

[Word]

i found out that it's hosted commercial

(a datacenter in Düsseldorf, Germany)

[AI-team]

Do never change DEDICATED_IDLE!
it has to be 0

[epsy]

You should set it to something else than 0, but you can leave it at 0 if you find a really good reason for it. But there's no way it would always have to be 0.